Comments on: SpecWatch on design contests http://www.logodesignlove.com/spec-watch For graphic designers and all who love logos. Tue, 07 Feb 2012 02:35:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: David Airey http://www.logodesignlove.com/spec-watch/comment-page-1#comment-13562 David Airey Wed, 02 Jun 2010 09:47:30 +0000 http://www.logodesignlove.com/?p=243#comment-13562 The anonymously submitted points (above) have already been discussed in-depth <a href="http://www.webdesignerdepot.com/2009/07/interview-with-specwatch-the-naked-truth-about-design-contests/" title="design contests" rel="nofollow">here on Web Designer Depot</a> (in the post linked and in the comment thread beneath it). The anonymously submitted points (above) have already been discussed in-depth here on Web Designer Depot (in the post linked and in the comment thread beneath it).

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.logodesignlove.com/spec-watch/comment-page-1#comment-13501 Anonymous Tue, 01 Jun 2010 06:27:37 +0000 http://www.logodesignlove.com/?p=243#comment-13501 and regarding the fairness argument, some people are born into rich families, some people are born into poor families. Tough, that's just the way it is. If you want things to be fair then everyone should be born into the same social class. and don't think this typing is going to waste, I'm also posting it on techdirt and making it clear to them that they should show up here. If they don't, then people will know that you are censoring arguments you don't like and it won't look good on your part. People are already frustrated enough with mainstream media censorship. and regarding the fairness argument, some people are born into rich families, some people are born into poor families. Tough, that’s just the way it is. If you want things to be fair then everyone should be born into the same social class.

and don’t think this typing is going to waste, I’m also posting it on techdirt and making it clear to them that they should show up here. If they don’t, then people will know that you are censoring arguments you don’t like and it won’t look good on your part. People are already frustrated enough with mainstream media censorship.

]]> By: AnonymousAgain http://www.logodesignlove.com/spec-watch/comment-page-1#comment-13493 AnonymousAgain Tue, 01 Jun 2010 04:56:39 +0000 http://www.logodesignlove.com/?p=243#comment-13493 Oh, and as far as uniqueness is concerned, pretty much all work is a derivative of previous work in some way or another. To say that your work is more unique than the work of others because you said so seems rather arbitrary. Yes, people improve on each others work, but I don't see a problem with that, and it allows you to improve on the work of others. If you don't like it, don't contribute (no one is forcing you to, you can better serve the community and society by finding another job instead), but don't attempt to diminish the rights of others to contribute to each others work just because you don't want anyone to contribute to something you do (and don't require the unnecessary restrictions on our rights and extra cost and work everyone must go through just to enforce your wishes that no one can improve on your work, extra work that no one signed up to but was instead forced upon them by an overarching government that doesn't know when to mind its own business). Oh, and as far as uniqueness is concerned, pretty much all work is a derivative of previous work in some way or another. To say that your work is more unique than the work of others because you said so seems rather arbitrary. Yes, people improve on each others work, but I don’t see a problem with that, and it allows you to improve on the work of others. If you don’t like it, don’t contribute (no one is forcing you to, you can better serve the community and society by finding another job instead), but don’t attempt to diminish the rights of others to contribute to each others work just because you don’t want anyone to contribute to something you do (and don’t require the unnecessary restrictions on our rights and extra cost and work everyone must go through just to enforce your wishes that no one can improve on your work, extra work that no one signed up to but was instead forced upon them by an overarching government that doesn’t know when to mind its own business).

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.logodesignlove.com/spec-watch/comment-page-1#comment-13492 Anonymous Tue, 01 Jun 2010 04:33:57 +0000 http://www.logodesignlove.com/?p=243#comment-13492 Oh, and another thing (if any of my comments even make it through, I wonder) is that it's amazing how you people argue that you won't argue the morality of the issue but then you turn around and do just that. If you aren't arguing the morality of the issue then what's the problem? When you say something like, "This is hardly fair" isn't the implication that unfairness is immoral and that things should be fair? Well, A: It's not a fair world and B: I would say that the Internet and the way things are currently done on the Internet (including these crowdsourcing sites) is more fair than things were in a long time, because the playing field is more level than things were in a long time. The Internet levels the playing field, I know incumbents who have managed to unfairly monopolize everything outside the Internet absolutely hate that, but a level playing field is more fair than a government regulated unlevel playing field. Who are you to decide what's fair? What, because anyone can now compete with you it's not fair? Hardly. Oh, and another thing (if any of my comments even make it through, I wonder) is that it’s amazing how you people argue that you won’t argue the morality of the issue but then you turn around and do just that. If you aren’t arguing the morality of the issue then what’s the problem? When you say something like, “This is hardly fair” isn’t the implication that unfairness is immoral and that things should be fair? Well, A: It’s not a fair world and B: I would say that the Internet and the way things are currently done on the Internet (including these crowdsourcing sites) is more fair than things were in a long time, because the playing field is more level than things were in a long time. The Internet levels the playing field, I know incumbents who have managed to unfairly monopolize everything outside the Internet absolutely hate that, but a level playing field is more fair than a government regulated unlevel playing field. Who are you to decide what’s fair? What, because anyone can now compete with you it’s not fair? Hardly.

]]> By: Anonymous http://www.logodesignlove.com/spec-watch/comment-page-1#comment-13491 Anonymous Tue, 01 Jun 2010 04:28:17 +0000 http://www.logodesignlove.com/?p=243#comment-13491 For those of you who think these are designer exploitation sites, then don't use them. No one is forcing you to. Those who use them use them as an act of their own free will, who are you to tell others what's in their best interest for them or that they shouldn't be allowed to design for these sites or that these sites shouldn't exist. If you don't like the competition, tough, that's free market capitalism and competition shouldn't be eliminated just because you can't compete. As far as guaranteed revenue, in no business is revenue ever guaranteed and it's certainly not the governments job to eliminate (or even to reduce) risk. All businesses have risk. For those of you who think these are designer exploitation sites, then don’t use them. No one is forcing you to. Those who use them use them as an act of their own free will, who are you to tell others what’s in their best interest for them or that they shouldn’t be allowed to design for these sites or that these sites shouldn’t exist. If you don’t like the competition, tough, that’s free market capitalism and competition shouldn’t be eliminated just because you can’t compete. As far as guaranteed revenue, in no business is revenue ever guaranteed and it’s certainly not the governments job to eliminate (or even to reduce) risk. All businesses have risk.

]]> By: Sara Herron http://www.logodesignlove.com/spec-watch/comment-page-1#comment-12603 Sara Herron Thu, 15 Apr 2010 22:38:20 +0000 http://www.logodesignlove.com/?p=243#comment-12603 There's a new designer exploitation site out there to watch out for: prova.fm There’s a new designer exploitation site out there to watch out for:
prova.fm

]]> By: David Airey http://www.logodesignlove.com/spec-watch/comment-page-1#comment-10058 David Airey Wed, 09 Dec 2009 20:48:17 +0000 http://www.logodesignlove.com/?p=243#comment-10058 Thanks for sharing your experiences, Elle. Interesting to read. Thanks for sharing your experiences, Elle. Interesting to read.

]]> By: elle http://www.logodesignlove.com/spec-watch/comment-page-1#comment-9824 elle Tue, 01 Dec 2009 02:55:29 +0000 http://www.logodesignlove.com/?p=243#comment-9824 I was always against these type of sites but decided to really see for myself what it was like. I "operated" for 6 months, won 5 contests, nearly won a handful of others. I had learned what I was wanting to know. I looked at it as sort of a research thing. On a contest not getting 25 entries and being refunded: many times if a contest was coming close to closing w/o the required 25 entries, I would do 2 or 3 so-so designs, different from each other completely, but no chance of winning - just to make sure the contest would be awarded - would private message 3 or 4 of the other "regulars" that were in the contest and ask them to maybe consider buffing up the gallery with a few so-so designs just so we can hit the quota and the contest has to award. Every time I did this everyone complied 100% of the time with my "idea" - lol. There are many other things that go on with cS that I think people don't know about. I did not join into this site for the money, in fact the money I was awarded I gave away to a charity - I just wanted to see for myself what it was really like ( I could afford to do this.) To say the least, it was brutal, the creatives were extremely cut throat in trying to win, and many of the buyers were rude and down right ugly at times. It was a true learning experience. Suffice to say the majority of the creatives on cS disregard the various codes of conduct, and just hope they get away with concept stealing, etc., and as you know many do. There were a handful of talented designers I observed, but sadly most of the design work was well below standard that's for sure - just not unique, not creative, just the same old stuff warmed up over and over again. Also you would constantly see the same designs/motifs over and over again for different projects - it was actually funny to watch this one particular "creative" submit this one particular logo design over and over and over again, just modified for the new "client". One of the saddest things about cS - there are creatives on there that call themselves "addicted" to cS. It's like the Stockholm syndrome for designers! As a professional graphic artist having been in this business for many years, I found it really interesting to watch the interaction between the creatives themselves and with the buyers. I have never worked in such a way, always one on one with a client, face to face. I just thought it so incredibly impersonal and often felt very sorry for creatives that you could clearly tell spent a lot of time on a design and the buyer did not say one word to them and just completely ignored their efforts. Overall, it was sad. I truly don't see anyway that cS could "fix" all the things that are wrong about their site. One suggestion would be to make all awards start at $1000 regardless to what it is. That would weed out many of the cheap creepy buyers - just a thought. I was always against these type of sites but decided to really see for myself what it was like. I “operated” for 6 months, won 5 contests, nearly won a handful of others. I had learned what I was wanting to know. I looked at it as sort of a research thing.

On a contest not getting 25 entries and being refunded:

many times if a contest was coming close to closing w/o the required 25 entries, I would do 2 or 3 so-so designs, different from each other completely, but no chance of winning – just to make sure the contest would be awarded – would private message 3 or 4 of the other “regulars” that were in the contest and ask them to maybe consider buffing up the gallery with a few so-so designs just so we can hit the quota and the contest has to award.

Every time I did this everyone complied 100% of the time with my “idea” – lol. There are many other things that go on with cS that I think people don’t know about.

I did not join into this site for the money, in fact the money I was awarded I gave away to a charity – I just wanted to see for myself what it was really like ( I could afford to do this.) To say the least, it was brutal, the creatives were extremely cut throat in trying to win, and many of the buyers were rude and down right ugly at times. It was a true learning experience. Suffice to say the majority of the creatives on cS disregard the various codes of conduct, and just hope they get away with concept stealing, etc., and as you know many do.

There were a handful of talented designers I observed, but sadly most of the design work was well below standard that’s for sure – just not unique, not creative, just the same old stuff warmed up over and over again. Also you would constantly see the same designs/motifs over and over again for different projects – it was actually funny to watch this one particular “creative” submit this one particular logo design over and over and over again, just modified for the new “client”.

One of the saddest things about cS – there are creatives on there that call themselves “addicted” to cS. It’s like the Stockholm syndrome for designers!

As a professional graphic artist having been in this business for many years, I found it really interesting to watch the interaction between the creatives themselves and with the buyers. I have never worked in such a way, always one on one with a client, face to face. I just thought it so incredibly impersonal and often felt very sorry for creatives that you could clearly tell spent a lot of time on a design and the buyer did not say one word to them and just completely ignored their efforts. Overall, it was sad. I truly don’t see anyway that cS could “fix” all the things that are wrong about their site. One suggestion would be to make all awards start at $1000 regardless to what it is. That would weed out many of the cheap creepy buyers – just a thought.

]]> By: David Airey http://www.logodesignlove.com/spec-watch/comment-page-1#comment-9195 David Airey Tue, 10 Nov 2009 12:10:15 +0000 http://www.logodesignlove.com/?p=243#comment-9195 Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Lindsay, Jessica. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Lindsay, Jessica.

]]> By: Lindsayanng http://www.logodesignlove.com/spec-watch/comment-page-1#comment-9129 Lindsayanng Sun, 08 Nov 2009 03:08:41 +0000 http://www.logodesignlove.com/?p=243#comment-9129 "Anyway, designers complaining about crowdsourcing is like brokers complaining about eTrade, photographers whining about iStockPhoto or travel agents complaining about Expedia. It’s not going away." No way!! First off, stock photography is something a photographer does a head of time and sells specifically as stock photography. Its like a retail store purchasing items to stock their shelves and let people purchase what they need. Stock photography is an entirely different animal in that most stock photo needs are STOCK. A logo should never be STOCK becase a logo is the identity of a business. You will never find STOCK WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHY! That is more like getting a "stock" logo than stock photography. I dont know too much about stock trading.. so i am not going to comment. But the travel agency.. If you really think that the importance of your business' identity and future is the same as your next vacation to Florida, then you are really mistaken. It is slightly similar in that you are giving up QUALITY of service to save money.. But the point here is that theese crowd sourcing places tout the QUALITY of their logos.. when their logos can't possibly be any real quality because people do not know crap about their clients, their client's clicnts, and the business that they are desinging this logo for.. A website can easily book you a trip.. you know you want to go to florida, you know where you want to stay, and you know how much you want to pay... Logos are not nearly that definite, and they never will be. “Anyway, designers complaining about crowdsourcing is like brokers complaining about eTrade, photographers whining about iStockPhoto or travel agents complaining about Expedia. It’s not going away.”

No way!! First off, stock photography is something a photographer does a head of time and sells specifically as stock photography. Its like a retail store purchasing items to stock their shelves and let people purchase what they need. Stock photography is an entirely different animal in that most stock photo needs are STOCK. A logo should never be STOCK becase a logo is the identity of a business. You will never find STOCK WEDDING PHOTOGRAPHY! That is more like getting a “stock” logo than stock photography.

I dont know too much about stock trading.. so i am not going to comment.

But the travel agency.. If you really think that the importance of your business’ identity and future is the same as your next vacation to Florida, then you are really mistaken.

It is slightly similar in that you are giving up QUALITY of service to save money.. But the point here is that theese crowd sourcing places tout the QUALITY of their logos.. when their logos can’t possibly be any real quality because people do not know crap about their clients, their client’s clicnts, and the business that they are desinging this logo for.. A website can easily book you a trip.. you know you want to go to florida, you know where you want to stay, and you know how much you want to pay… Logos are not nearly that definite, and they never will be.

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